Liminal Areas, Transitional States: Alexander Ullom on “It Ends”

Fred Rogers’s music “What do you do with the Mad that you just Really feel” involves thoughts when watching director Alexander Ullom’s existential road-trip nightmare, “It Ends.” In his song, Rogers articulates a necessity for vessels to position our rage, angst, and grief, and sings how straightforward it’s to really feel powerless within the face of all that afflicts us. That very same thorny longing, terrifying questioning, and finally deep-seated hope that despair received’t rule the day programs by way of Ullom’s movie, which takes the straitjackets of horror and hangout films and blends them into a singular meditation on rising up and discovering your means. 

Ullom’s movie follows 4 latest faculty grads, James (Phinehas Yoon), Tyler (Mitchell Cole), Fisher (Noah Toth), and Day (Akira Jackson), who embark on a late-night drive earlier than they go their separate methods. They understand that they’ve turned onto a unending highway, and any time they attempt to pause to catch their breath, they’ve solely ninety seconds of respite earlier than hordes of screaming individuals swarm and assault them. Because the odometer climbs and days start to mix, every member of the crew has to wrestle with what this purgatory means for the futures they as soon as thought that they had.

Although the foursome are affected by everlasting monotony, the highway to “It Ends” discovering a film dwelling was removed from simple. After a premiere at SXSW, a subsequent tour on the pageant circuit that included the 2025 Chicago Critics Movie Competition, a stint on the Letterboxd Video Retailer, and artistic persistence from Ullom himself (“madness,” he corrects me in our interview) involving influencers at a “Jurassic World: Rebirth” occasion, “It Ends” lastly roars into theaters now. 

RogerEbert.com spoke with Ullom as soon as in particular person through the movie’s Chicago premiere and as soon as over Zoom after Ullom wrapped principal images on his follow-up, “4×4: The Occasion”; this piece combines these interviews into one fluid dialog. Ullom spoke in regards to the significance of foolish questions when navigating our current hellscape, humanity’s tendency to create liturgies to course of struggling, and the way his choices to steadiness the movie’s horror and hangout parts manifest within the characters’ arcs. 

This dialog has been edited and condensed for readability.

I discovered the sequence the place James is pleading out to some unknown power for the automotive to begin to be relatable for many who come from spiritual backgrounds, particularly, the methods individuals of religion or dechurched individuals may be so fast to revert to crying out to God in a second of disaster. Did drawing from your personal religion background show prudent when articulating a few of these characters’ religious angsts? 

Alexander Ullom: The movie is unquestionably spiritual trauma coded, however I’ve nothing in opposition to faith. Something that might give individuals a way of consolation as they’re dying might be a superb factor, and we’ve an more and more quick provide of these balms. That scene the place Fisher is lamenting that his mom would possibly suppose he’s going to hell as a result of he instructed her he was not spiritual has private resonance. 

Within the two-and-a-half-hour model of this film, there was a complete swath of scenes the place the group was attempting to recollect tales from the Bible. They have been speaking about Lot’s spouse and the way she turned to a pillar of salt as a result of she rotated to take a look at the destruction of Sodom when God instructed her to not, and attempting to grasp why she’d try this. Like, dude, if God–like actually, God– fucking confirmed up and was like, “Don’t flip round or else …” I might be like, “Yeah, completely. Task understood.” 

One factor that your movie actually dives into is the worry of eternity. I really feel like as human beings we’re not constructed to totally reckon with the idea of “perpetually.” What’s your relationship to eternity? 

I feel for individuals my age, our relationship with infiniteness and liminality–name it “Backrooms,” if you’ll–all stems much less from a spiritual place and extra from the truth that we don’t actually have a vacation spot to “arrive at” anymore. There’s a motion away from any form of interconnected ethical system in our technology that there might need been previously. The tent poles of construction that used to carry up society, whether or not it was having a household or shopping for a home, or actually faith–which was one of many ethical heart factors of what held all the youngsters collectively–all of these constructions have type of dissolved, and of their place is type of nothing, like a transitional state. 

If liminal areas are transitionary states, it simply looks like we’re in a protracted one proper now. Our relationship with nature is off proper now, and since, usually, I feel persons are changing into much less spiritual or religious, we’re shedding a connection to one thing greater than ourselves. 

I used to be struck by a relatable, futile tendency to graft ritual onto otherworldly conditions to shrink them all the way down to dimension and make them relatable. It’s why I resonated a lot with the on-screen rituals we see the characters bear as soon as they settle for their destiny. What was the origin of developing with these rituals? 

The information rails have been that every follow or “time” was crafted to course of a particular emotion. The screaming is the bodily sensation of getting the worry out; the memes are mind gooping, to provide your thoughts area to unwind. I’m in all probability not sensible sufficient to articulate this, however with the dancing, one of many issues I used to be attempting to speak was how, inside the confines of capitalism, each emotion and bodily want is exploited, particular person time that should exist inside of a bigger construction. So dancing was a strategy to break away from a few of that. 

Are there practices you end up implementing now that act as your type of launch? What do you do together with your anger, despondency, and despair? 

It has modified over time. Once I was younger, meditating was ridiculous to me, however now I discovered how one can climb our fireplace escape to get to the roof of my residence. So now I’ll go up there and simply sit within the solar for some time. Studying has reentered my life, which is loopy. I’m attempting to decide to doing issues that really are good in your well-being. Consuming all of the meals teams …

The place do Clif Bars–which get a pleasant payoff on the finish of the movie–fall into that food plan? 

I don’t suppose I can eat these anymore. I instructed Phineas I’d eat bar for bar what he ate throughout manufacturing, and I ended up consuming loads of them. These things to truly enhance your life is simply what everybody already is aware of; you simply should decide to doing it, which sucks. With meditation, my angle was, “ I don’t need to waste quarter-hour sitting in silence after I could possibly be, I don’t know, doing anything.” However then after quarter-hour, I’m like, “All proper, I really feel somewhat higher. I can take pleasure in TikTok somewhat higher now.” (Laughs) 

How do you suppose rising up terminally on-line has formed your (or Gen Z’s) strategy to processing trauma? 

Personally, I used to be fifteen after I noticed the Russian Brick Video. I noticed a cartel execution on-line after I was twelve years outdated. Each single time you watch something on a telephone–even in films– there’s a simulation of emotion, and so if I used to be going to really feel the actual factor, I had already been desensitized to the precise sensation of that feeling. I feel we’re all strolling round with a functioning numbness, spawned partially resulting from a collective dissociation. 

I’m curious if somebody in medieval occasions who noticed their household’s heads chopped off in actual time would course of it higher than how we’re processing related photos now as a result of their feelings are rooted in witnessing one thing actual. Each time we see terrible footage on-line and go on with our lives, we’re–as Fisher says–experiencing weaker shades of feelings. 

I bear in mind my first heartbreak, and it was world-ending, after which I bought used to it. It looks like we solely have a sure reservoir for a particular emotion, and over time, it will get floor down and down. You run out of it, and the extra you’re on-line watching stuff, the extra I feel you employ up that reservoir. 

Even with watching a horror film, about an hour in, I simply get desensitized to the precise sound of the theater. There’s solely a sure variety of occasions a speaker will get actually loud earlier than I’m fully used to it.

It’s terrifying how simply we get used to issues. Along with the aforementioned Russian Brick Video and Bible story retelling scene, I additionally know there have been a number of conversations and scenes that you just finally didn’t embrace on this edited minimize, like one other one together with the music “Viva La Vida.” Inform me extra in regards to the course of of selecting the cultural references on this movie, realizing that by the point of launch, the movie might really feel dated by what its characters discuss? 

I simply needed to root the dialogue within the stuff that’s caught round with my precise pals in actual life. It’s bizarre as a result of by the point this film comes out, persons are going to suppose that we’re copying the “100 males versus gorillas” meme based on the query that the characters bicker about initially of the movie. This interview proves we’re forward of the sport proper now. I feel what is going to preserve it common and recent is that the references aren’t essentially rooted in a particular development. Like trendy artwork, individuals use memes to course of what they’re going by way of, and that’s what will probably be acquainted, much less so the content material of the meme itself. 

You’ve shared earlier than that if you have been in a darkish place, the foolish debate you had with a pal about whether or not a gorilla or bear would win in a struggle galvanized one thing in you that helped make life value residing. Inform me extra in regards to the function of foolish questions in friendships. 

There’s no such factor as goal fact anymore. So now these questions are a fact in a means. The precise restrict of the human expertise is questions with no solutions. The confines of existence are questions with out a solution, but in addition know that since there’s no fact, everybody’s subjective opinion is crucial factor now. So the particular person arguing for the gorilla …. That debate is basically a religious battle, as a result of that’s all that’s left (Laughs). I really feel like students and scientists have type of already discovered all the things there must be, and now it’s for us to debate the foolish questions of life. Possibly that’s the unifying ethical construction our technology can push collectively within the absence of faith. In some ways, arguing over a silly hypothetical is definitely crucial factor in your complete world. 

A variety of the characters’ grief stems from a official nihilism that anybody would really feel residing on this planet we’re in now. I discovered their grief to be an nearly righteous type of discontent. 

If there’s all this horror, if all this shit is happening round us on a regular basis, then the one actual factor we will do to make our fellow aware expertise somewhat bit higher is hang around and join with somebody by way of dialog. Speaking with individuals, listening to totally different perspectives- to me, these really feel just like the methods to fight that desensitized meaninglessness. They don’t essentially should be these “bear versus gorilla” questions both. If all the things’s horrifying, terrifying, and meaningless, then the one response is to listen to everybody speaking about it.

You talked about how one read of “It Ends” that you just like is that there’s a battle over the movie’s tone with the characters themselves, proper all the way down to the modifications in side ratio. The movie widens through the hangout moments, whereas in its “horror” section the body is tighter. Discuss to me somewhat bit about that wrestling you have been present process as a director with this movie, after which transplanting that battle onto the characters? 

I feel that in the event that they didn’t make that flip, the group would have gone and had a “Dazed and Confused” type of night time. The movie would have been a dope little hangout film, and so they in all probability would have saved butting heads as a result of James is a little bit of an asshole. However the movie turns onto the highway, and now it’s in horror film mode. 

Horror and style are constructed on overcoming battle as rapidly as doable. A perception runs by way of these initiatives, rooted within the hero’s journey: I’m going to overcome this object, this battle, after which I’ll return having modified. That’s not how maturity works in any respect, or actual life. There’s simply this scrap within the mud the place you pull that means from wherever, and that’s the factor that James couldn’t totally perceive.

So whereas James is on one finish, bringing in that framework and horror, you could have Fisher and Day on the opposite, who, after the time leap, are simply attempting to hang around. There’s a therapeutic in vibing, and that helps save us from the interval of transition we’re in. James is actually saying: “I would like the brand new factor? What’s the new factor?” That’s very typical of a style viewers member. For James, he can’t settle for that relationships and the individuals you’re keen on are what give life that means. He doesn’t need to hang around. That was me after I was youthful; I couldn’t be current. I couldn’t reside in a world the place I couldn’t get a solution for that, partly due to my spiritual upbringing too. 

Fisher and Day should actually flip off the story automobile. James can’t settle for that, so he takes the identical automobile, the one driving the plot, and takes off on his personal. They’re battling, and the film can’t conclude until the plot concludes and, by extension, he takes the film from them. 

Going simply off the logline of your subsequent movie, “4×4: The Occasion,” it looks like if “It Ends” goes to be about that transition to maturity, your follow-up is about how one can survive the fact of maturity.

Yeah, if “It Ends is like “Hey, don’t kill your self. Love the individuals round you,” “4×4: The Occasion” could be very a lot “Okay, now that you just didn’t kill your self, we have to unite.” It’s an intense escalation. If “It Ends” was in regards to the transition from 18 to the ages 23-25, then the subsequent undertaking is about me going from 25 to 30 and watching the individuals I like’s lives be deeply and negatively affected by the state of the world. 

Visually, the movie was impressed by my time residing in that windowless walk-in closet whereas I used to be making “It Ends.” You don’t get this from the logline, however yeah, all of the contestants live in small, darkish, windowless concrete rooms with tunnels between them. There’s a drop chute the place their orders are available. It’s a setup that actually inverts the pure world. There’s not a single factor in that room that’s natural. They’re just about instructed, “Hey, right here’s your laptop … right here’s your device to overcome the world. Good fucking luck.” That’s trendy life in a nutshell.

“It Ends” is in choose theaters by way of NEON.